Blog Wars
Posted in Individualism, Politics on 12. May, 2009
As part of my daily routine, I check where traffic is coming from and where it’s going (so if you could allow google analytics if you have a javascript blocker, it would really help). This time, I checked who’s been saving newcurator links on delicious.com. It was this one that caught my eye.
Shockingly bad blog that features even worse art
Shockingly bad? Possibly, in places, I’d admit that. But even worse art? I appreciate every one’s efforts who submitted to ArtFriday. Everyone who was part of ArtFriday came from making links via twitter and I value every acquaintance.
So I asked twitter if they knew who Karen Archey is. Turns out she’s Contributing Editor to Artfagcity.com.
Karen Archey (aka @findings on twitter) eventually @’d me.
Honestly, I gave your blog the benefit of the doubt until I saw this: http://bit.ly/o3d3G
I replied
Alright then Karen Archey (@findings), is there anyone else who follows me on twitter that you want to insult?
Because, Karen Archey (@findings), everyone on ArtFriday were twitter followers I wanted to give some exposure to for their hard work
So thank you, Karen Archey (@findings), for your “benefit of the doubt” to actual artists trying to make a living
In response to an @ to another person, Karen Archey said
Be as rude as you possibly can. :D
I’m not about rudeness.
Dear Karen Archey (@findings), you can take your rudeness and elitism with you to artfagcity.com. Here at newcurator, we’re about the future
Paddy Johnson, Art Fag City’s main editor and someone who I’ve personally enjoyed reading and has pride of place in my feed reader, said this.
These are only opinions. The job of artists and curators is to determine the valuable feedback, and ignore the rest.
True. I also believe it’s the curator’s role to defend the artists they represent. Anyway, these were my followers on twitter, not multi-millionaire artists.
But it was this response that was the kicker
I didn’t realize the art world is supposed to be fair! And unfortunately I believe rudeness + elitism will be part of the future
Wow. Just amazing.
So I ask the question:
Okay then @artfagcity, do you stand beside the opinion of your contributing editor?
The response:
If John Waters has anything to do with the future, then of course rudeness and elitism will be part of it. http://bit.ly/Uycvg
And there we have it. I now ask all of you: Does rudeness and elitism have a part to play in the future of art and/or museums? If so, what exactly? I personally think about the lack of elitism that launched hundreds of musicians off a social network like Myspace. I also think about how things like twitter have allowed artists to gain a lot more exposure. I also see how rudeness is replacing honest debate and cheapening the levels of critical theory of culture.
I want to hear your opinions.
i know we have not met personally, but, right on pete! i am stunned that those with @artfagcity regard rudeness/elitism as a part of art/critique!? rudeness is just NOT acceptable under any circumstance. as an artist i find this quite sad, disheartening and disgusting. no human can possibly grow through rudeness either directed to them or giving it! elitism? really, they said this? and they stand by this? wow…ignorance is one huge delsuion for them. they, @artfagcity will incur an amazing amount of heavy karma.
thanks for the article, don’t buy into their elitist or ignorant nature. they just want attention…all be it negative.
love/compassion….douse em with it!
Thanks Pete you made me smile…. elitism and rudeness seem to go hand in hand, they however, neither have any useful place in art criticism IMHO. They’re there… but its not useful is what I am saying!
Perhaps the only criticism I can give you is that you’ve given their rudeness just what they wanted… exposure for themselves. Maybe if we ignore them, they’ll just go away?!
Personally I think you’re winning the blog wars. I read as much of your blog as I can, I barely ever bother to read artfagcity. So it’s 1:nil by my count, and they think it’s all over…..
You’re joking, right?
Certainly there’s a fine line between out and out rudeness and opinionated aggressive critique. Critique is essential to any art community structure and often this aspect of the artist’s practice is cut out after art school when they are free to do what they want. Without the constant reevaluation of a peer group (big or small), artists often get trapped in a cycle of mediocrity and ineffectuality. No, there is no need for name calling of cattiness, but this world depends on opinionated individuals willing to stand up for their beliefs. Often sarcasm gets lost in translation of the WWW as I have found all too often. A well-slicked back may be the best medicine (side note: how is “the future” the opposite of rudeness and elitism?) I’m all about mixing it up, starting a tussle even if some namecalling rears up and harsh words get flung.
I’m a bit of a modernist at heart; I believe in working towards a better future.
Just to be clear, New Curator has omitted their own tweets prior to any response by @findings. Those were:
@****** What level of rude am I allowed to be in return?
@****** The slings and arrows, I can take, but nobody picks on my artist buddies!
@****** http://delicious.com/karenarchey/curatorial
@****** I say, people who work hard to make art, follow me on twitter and were part of ArtFriday deserve a bit more respect.
@****** You haven’t offended me. I’m just defending my twitter artist cohorts.
This seems a bit extreme for a passing comment made on a delicious link over a month ago. I’m quite certain it was driving hoards of traffic the way of the blog, given the response time. It is simply an opinion, and you don’t have to share it. In fact, if you’re happy with your programming as is, I think it’s completely fine to ignore the opinion.
But regardless of all this, I want to make sure there is no misunderstanding on this point: Art Fag City does not endorse needless rude and elitist behavior. We simply mean to acknowledge that it exists.
Related to this point, I think it’s a mistake to think that the mechanics of social networks negate elitism. Ashton Kutcher didn’t become the most followed twitterer purely because of his talent; star power did that. But ultimately he also has to do what everyone does with the media to have any sway; find ways to engage their audience. Facebook and twitter make that a lot easier, but they don’t erase social hierarchy. Personally, I think that’s okay, so long as everyone knows those structures still exist. The real danger of social media, is that it allows us to believe we’ve achieved a kind of change that in fact, has not been challenged at all.
(edited by Pete to remove names)
Typo: I’m quite certain it was *not* driving hoards of traffic.
Yeah, I omitted tweets to people who I didn’t want to drag into this. So well done for that.
And yeah, it was a month ago. Does that make any kind of difference? Only that I will call out any snide remarks made when I see them.
“How do you plead?”
“Not guilty”
“On what grounds”
“It was over a month ago”
Okay, if you do not endorse needlessly rude comments, do you disenvow your contributing editors comment about me and the artists who have featured on here?
I agree that social networks aren’t going to remove elitism, but what comment do you make to the fact that you’ll be on a panel with An Xiao soon about social networks and art and the fact that An was a featured artist on here (after I linked with her on twitter) that your contributing editor glibly stated was “worse than shockingly bad”?
PS.
Despite all this, I do appreciate you coming by and commenting. I am, and remain, a big fan of your blog.
Pete: Please edit out the portion of the replies that includes the names of people you don’t want to drag into the debate if that’s the concern. I had no idea this was the rationale behind the omission, and didn’t insert them as a malicious act.
It does make a difference that it was mentioned a month ago. For one thing, blog content changes a lot over the course of a month. For another, it indicates NO ONE WAS PAYING ATTENTION. The only purpose this post serves is to draw attention to negative criticism. I don’t know why you’re doing that, let alone claiming that this is for the benefit of the artists involved.
As for Karen, she can do whatever she wants on her own delicious feed. I’m not fan of the work she linked to either, so I’m not going to defend it by “disavowing” anyone. And I see absolutely no conflict in participating on a panel with an artist who’s work has been featured on this blog. The whole point of discussion is to engage ideas critically. I wouldn’t participate if it were any other way.
Re: P.S. And I appreciate you hosting the comments, even if we don’t agree on everything.
Curators being elitist is only going to result in no one showing up at museums. I’m not saying pander to the lowest taste, but picking art that speaks to average folks.
Judgments along the lines of “I like” or “I don’t like” are fine. Certainly, anyone who feels they are the one person who can label art “bad” isn’t understanding the point of art.
Rudeness is unacceptable any way you go. Being a critic is no excuse to be a jerk
First of all, thank you Paddy for clarifying all of the omissions by newcurator. Secondly, I’d like to reiterate the fact that this was one sentence I wrote on my delicious account (which I have about 8 friends on) from a month ago. Obviously this matters because, as Paddy said, no one noticed it until now. This sentence went from being read by practically no one to ostensibly 1300 people because an issue was made of it.
Also, when I said “I didn’t realize the art world is supposed to be fair! And unfortunately I believe rudeness and elitism will be part of the future,” I meant that a.) obviously the art world isn’t fair. The art world is probably a less fair version of the regular world, and b.) I meant sincerely, unfortunately rudeness and elitism will still exist. Inevitably. People will continue to be shitty to each other, instigate flame wars on Twitter, write about it on their blogs, etc. This, unfortunately, is a fact. I honestly don’t understand why anyone would delude themselves into thinking that rudeness will *poof* disappear in the “future.” Whenever that is.
I really, really don’t like the art posted in the blog’s ArtFriday section. At all. But that’s completely fine, and I would think, to be expected. Like it was mentioned before, part of our jobs as critics and curators is to make judgments. As bloggers, one of our greatest assets is our ability to make on-the-spot judgments and quickly turn around content. There’s virtually no censorship — and I don’t think there should be. This makes for stupid, flippant comments but it also precipitates honesty. I respect the field of art too greatly to encourage art criticism NOT to be critical and honest. Art criticism, theory, and practice are serious, respectable disciplines in which expertise and talent are necessary. Of course there’s going to be some “elitism” in such a specialized field. Just like there are specialists in medicine, or talent in sports, etc., I wouldn’t want Paddy flying me around on a plane because, well, she doesn’t know how to. People aren’t created or educated equally — this is just as much a good fact as it is a stressful and unfortunate one. The confusing thing about artistic practice is that it sometimes comes with the illusion that “anyone can do it” because it’s supposedly a discipline that champions self expression. By no means do I want the blog’s Twitter followers to stop making art, but they might want to know their labor doesn’t fit in the lineage of fine art. It looks more like craft. There’s a huge distinction here, and anyone that wants to be part of the art world should be armed with this fact. Otherwise, these people are wasting their efforts. That this work would be showcased on newcurator is shocking to me as I had high expectations for the blog due to the fact that we have similar interests. Too bad our sentiments don’t align, as well. And thank you, sincerely for providing a venue for this. This response has been a nice excercise.
And lastly, to be a good “elistist,” I’m going to quote Adorno. “Whoever concretely enjoys artworks is a philistine; he is convicted by expressions like “a feast for the ears.” Yet if the last traces of pleasure were extirpated, the question of what artworks are for would be an embarrassment. Actually, the more they are understood the less they are enjoyed…For him who has a genuine relation to art, in which he himself vanishes, art is not an object; deprivation of art would be unbearable for him, yet he does not consider individual works sources of joy.”
I was one of those people whose name was removed from ArtFagCity’s comment above – I thought I should declare my interest…anyway.
I think all this should serve as a reminder that little on teh interwebs is secret. One’s delicious tags, for example, are free to view. I think the important thing here was not the initial criticism, but the way in which it was expressed with no qualification, no explanation – so, what could have been constructive criticism, came across as just plain rude and childish. Why is New Curator a shockingly bad blog? What exactly was ‘wrong’ with the art? There is a big difference between not being a fan of something, and declaring it to be ‘bad’.
Pete says he’s a ‘modernist’ at heart. I would disagree. I think elitism, generalised, sweeping statements and good old fashioned snobbery are particularly backward. As I alluded to in one of my (unreplied to) Twitter responses, museologists are generally committed to inclusivity, to breaking down barriers, to combating elitism. We appear to be coming from entirely different positions. Perhaps we need to agree to disagree.
I like how my omissions have now become an issue, when everyone can clearly see they don’t.
The fact that it was a month ago on a delicious account doesn’t make it any less rude. The fact that you’re artfagcity people makes it that little bit more disappointing and hurtful. I will make an issue out of it because I will *NOT* let it go, or let it slide and I will call out your little remarks every time and get you to explain yourself.
I’m going to draw a line under this now. I note that after all this, there has yet to be an apology made. Selah.